Hi my name is Professor Kate Watkins and I'm the Psychology tutor at St Anne's college here at the University of Oxford. Hi and I'm Nick Yeung, I'm a tutor and I do interviews at University College ... for Psychology and PPL. So we're going to talk a bit about interviews and how we use them, so perhaps Kate, do you want to start by talking a bit about what you are looking for when you do your interviews? Yeah ... I guess that the most important thing is some sort of enthusiasm for the course ... you know good motivation for wanting to study psychology either experimental psychology or in combination with linguistics or philosophy and ... some I guess like spark really like that is a bit difficult to identify ... as a single thing but I guess you see that when somebody is genuinely enthused by ... the study of psychology, which of course can be like really broad and be applicable in so many different contexts. So often you know they may talk, a student may talk about like their experience and it's interesting to explore how they've thought about psychology in the context of that experience, like even working in a supermarket, why people make choices about brands and things and probably it's good if the student is kind of able to articulate quite clearly ... what they're thinking and ... is able to demonstrate in the interview that clarity of thought and how well they respond to information we give them, how good a listener they are and then how well they adapt when we give them new information and take that on board and revise their thinking and that sort of thing. There's probably a few more things I've forgotten, what about you do you have more? Yeah similar, yeah absolutely, I mean ... that sort of enthusiasm and that interest in thinking like a psychologist about whatever topic it is yeah absolutely. Yeah, do you think ... students come with any sort of preconceptions about what they needed to have studied before they got here? Well I think psychology is an interesting subject right because about half of our applicants come with some psychology they've been taught in schools and half haven't and and so we get people with very different sort of interests and or different experiences of psychology already ... so part of what we do in interviews I guess starting to think about what questions we ask is trying to kind of level the playing field a bit. So typically in an interview I won't ask them much or anything really about psychology they've studied in the past, although I know some tutors and interviewers will. I tend to give them a problem to think about where all the information they need to solve that problem which might be thinking about an experiment which is what we'll do in the practice interview in a bit ... is there in the question and it's really how they think about that information and think through it logically so all the things that you were thinking about, so how do they think kind of clearly and logically about the experimental design, how do they use the information we give them if we give them extra information how do they then kind of use that to update their thinking, you know sometimes ... do they change their mind or stick with what they're thinking ... Yeah, I mean it's going to be interesting because we've never actually interviewed together and we probably have slightly different ways of interviewing as do our very many colleagues in the University, so I think it's fair to say that, you know, on some occasions people will give you something to read in advance of the interview and then ask you questions about it, sometimes during the interview they'll show you some data maybe on a graph and they'll ask you to describe it, that sort of thing. And all of those things can be really useful and even over Teams in this kind of format ... we're still able to do those kind of ... interview questions, but we're probably not going to demonstrate that today I think. Yeah and I think that sort of relates to a theme of how I do interviews and what questions we ask, is that typically we'll be talking about some psychology experiments because that's what we do in our degree here, and I think often to describe interviews as being a bit like a mini tutorial, and so just as what you do in a tutorial varies a lot so the tutorial that's really important to our teaching system of the the tutors talking with small groups of students ... you know we might be discussing a specific experiment or we might be thinking about a general problem and so that what you do in an interview just as varied as well but they're all kind of centred around that same thing of an academic discussion about the subject and really thinking through deeply about a topic. And so even if the basic format, whether you've read a lot about it in advance or you've done some pre-interview reading or there's some information given to you at the time and let's think through that, or even sometimes we ask something that's not really psychology but it's a more general reasoning puzzle and just get people to see how they think clearly and logically through a problem. Yeah so I mean I think it's good to point out the similarity between an interview and a tutorial, ... and obviously that's an important part of the way that we teach here, ... but I think it's probably fair to say that ... as part of the admissions process we don't ... weight the interview solely right, we take into account a lot of other factors. And you know sometimes that ... will include things like performance on that admissions test, the TSA, ... because that's typically the only thing that we have that every student we see will have done, ... and the UCAS form their previous academic performance, if we have information about that. And so, yeah, ... the interview helps to kind of flesh out that picture that we've got from the data we already have but it's not everything, and it's certainly my impression that sometimes the student gets the feeling that ... the interview hasn't gone that well, ... but that's probably what is a typical experience of ... all of our students, and if it does feel like that ..., you shouldn't worry too much. Yeah well, that goes back to that thing that we were talking, about ... what we want to see is students really thinking through something they haven't got the answer to already, because that's what you do, that's what university is for, it's like learning how to do that. And so ... I want to get to a point in a question where they haven't thought about that before and they don't necessarily know how to think about it and to see what they do when they are uncertain and how they go about kind of answering a difficult question... And yeah I completely agree about that the interview is just one, it's useful because it's something we get from everybody that we're considering and similarly for the the pre-interview test, whereas people are coming from all over the world you know , and they have very different school backgrounds and school grades, some of which I have to look up to interpret, and so that having that common ground is really useful but it is only one thing. I always talk about it with psychology students, saying you know you'd be sort of crazy if you've got this measure that's half an hour of the discussion and weighing that much more heavily than the result of 13 years of study at school and I think that's a good way, how I think about how we use interviews. It's a useful piece of information, but obviously not the most important or the most reliable if you think as a psychologist about it. Exactly, I was just going to say as psychologists we know how unreliable interviews can be. Okay so I think ... we'll move on to the interview.

Hi my name is Kate Watkins I'm a psychology tutor at St Anne's college. Hi and I'm Nick Yeung, I'm a tutor at University College, nice to meet you. And do you want us to call you Bethan or Beth? I'm quite happy with Beth. Okay so obviously we're doing this interview in Teams, if there are any connection problems or anything or if you can't hear us or we can't hear you then we'll just, you know, feel free to repeat yourself or ask us to repeat ourselves. Okay great so ... I just wanted to ask you something about your personal statement. So I was having a look at that before this interview and I noticed that ... you've done an EPQ on parental bonds and early influences. Can you tell us a little bit about ... the EPQ and why you did it? Yeah, I was really interested in developmental psychology and I had some younger siblings and I noticed that they were a lot closer to my mum than they were to their father figure, ... and I wondered why that was, so I decided to look at lots of different factors: psychological, biological and sociological. So I looked at things like parental leave from work and breastfeeding, ... loads of different other things ... what else did I look at? Bonding, the changes in the brain when the baby is born, I think the mother's amygdala heightens an activity which makes them more alert to babies crying in the night, whereas that doesn't happen for fathers, and I just found it really interesting as to all the different factors that kind of play into that bonding situation. So was there a kind of conclusion to the study, like what did you find out that perhaps you didn't know before? ... I think I didn't realize how many biological changes there were and how like prominent they are and maybe that is the explanation, and I thought that was quite the dominant explanation, but also the fact that there is a lot of environmental factors involved and the world is kind of set up for mothers to parent their children, so in a way there's kind of that interaction, but for me I did think the biological thing, but our biological findings were like quite overwhelming. Okay, interesting. Great, so we're going to ask you a couple of questions that we prepared and that we're asking ... all of the candidates today. I'm going to hand over to Nick ... for the first one.

Okay great. So ... i'm asking you a question about ... face processing in the brain so ... I'll describe a scenario and then we'll think through some questions, okay? So the scenario is that the ability to recognize and identify faces is a very important skill that we mostly take for granted in our everyday life, but a small number of people find it very difficult to recognize faces even those of people that they know very well, ... and the occurrence of this thing sometimes called face blindness might be taken to indicate that there's a specific brain system that's responsible for recognizing and identifying faces and this system presumably doesn't function properly for people suffering from face blindness. So imagine there's a professor called Professor Smith, who's interested in testing this idea that there's a specific face recognition system in the brain and so she conducts an experiment in which she measures brain activity as people look at pictures of faces and she finds that indeed there's a region of the brain that is particularly activated when people view faces and she concludes that she's discovered the brain's face area. That's the kind of experimental scenario I'd like you to think about now, so ... let me know if you have any questions about that before we get started but ... otherwise the first question ... I'd like us to think about ... is whether there are any details of Professor Smith's experiment that you would want to know before you could trust the results that I just described? ... Would you want to like, maybe look at a control group to see if the participants, like you need a comparative basically to see if that what the difference in activity in the brain from the people with the problems with facial processing and normal people to see if the activity levels are different? So imagine for this experiment, so for this experiment it's actually it's not done in those face blind people. We might come back to the people with face blindness in a bit, so this would be ... neurologically kind of ... typically developing who can recognize faces, and when they're looking at faces we see this brain area reactive. Yeah, so that's an important clarification. Yes so we might come back later to ... the face blind ... partisipants/ patients, but yeah, so if you imagine what we've done is we've ... Professor Smith has put these people in a brain scanner ... shown them pictures of faces. We find this area that's particularly activated. So how about if we think about that experiment, ... what would you need to know before you could trust those results? You would need to know like whether they've controlled things like what the participants have ... experienced, the like duration they've been shown the face, ... how many faces they've been shown, the ... time period between the pictures being shown, ... it needs to be consistent for all participants so that then you control the validity of those results. Okay, great, so tell me about, so you mentioned that it's important to know how many faces are shown: what's your thinking there? Because if you show maybe a lot of faces it could overwhelm someone and then they might begin to not recognize them. If you showed say maybe a series of blonde people it would be a bit more confused and not be able to recognize faces as clearly, whereas you don't want to show too many to overwhelm, and you also want to show a variety so that the facial processing can occur. Okay, so you mean recognized in the sense of distinguish between the different faces as well, so if they're all too similar you start to just see they all sort of start to blend into one almost, right right yeah okay. So I mean I guess how might that impact if you think about the results as described where what Professor Smith is seeing is there is a particular area of the brain that's active or there's an area of the brain that's particularly active when people look at faces, in terms of that idea of people being overwhelmed or seeing too many faces? Then maybe if they were overwhelmed it would cause weaker facial processing so there might be lower activity in the brain, the area of the brain that recognizes faces, than if you'd shown so if you show someone 10 photos there their activity might be lower whereas if you show someone five theirs might be higher. Okay so in terms of thinking about the experiment, is there anything you want to know, more you want to know, about the activity itself or the area of the brain that's activated? You would want to know it's location maybe whether it's linked to any other areas, so if there's kind of like a connection between the two because then maybe if one isn't functioning the other one wouldn't function and you have to pinpoint in certain people whether that's different. Yeah so let's say we found this area that's kind of consistent across individuals, but where would, I guess when you're saying its location what would be a marker that you know you could trust the results versus not? What did you say sorry, the mark? What were you thinking about when you said that you know, you want to know the location so how would that help you know you could trust the results? Are there locations that you think, yeah that makes sense, versus locations that don't? So you would think about which lobe in the brain maybe, the potential areas, and then if there's prior research that suggests that area of the brain was linked to facial processing you could say okay well that that makes sense whereas if it was in, I don't know, the area of the brain that processes language it would be a little bit more strange. Yeah, well the amygdala for example would be interesting, that you mentioned earlier, yeah. Great ... okay, so let's think, so that's some important details that you might want to know ... before you trusted the results, but let's say that you were sort of reassured on all those points it was a carefully done experiment and it was in a region that made sense and can you think of ways to improve the design of that experiment? So you would maybe do a few trials ... to exclude some anomalies, you would like ... control variables such as maybe like not let the participants have any caffeine because that can stimulate them or think about what medications they're on. You would maybe ... do different faces so you maybe have like a array of the same race or a mix of genders, and maybe do different trials on each ones.

Do you think ... there are other kinds of ... stimuli you might want to use as well? What did you say sorry I missed it? Yeah, no worries, ... do you think there are other kinds of stimuli you might want to include as well? So you talked about different places you could maybe look at, I know this is a bit of a random one, I just thought of animals and maybe see if people can recognize different animal faces and then see is the deficit in their brain function specifically linked to humans or is it other things maybe different flowers, and just to isolate the fact that that is faces and not like something else. We'll come back to those face blind patients again in a bit, but let's think, so what we're doing at the moment is this kind of experiment with ... let's say kind of, I don't know what the right word is, but you know kind of healthy ... people who can recognize faces. So you thought about animals and flowers and I think that's really interesting so what's your what's your thought about why those might be good control stimuli? I suppose animals because they're similar to humans but they don't have as many differences maybe? I don't know. And maybe ... two like different breeds of dog or I'm not sure ... but they're kind of live stimuli, whereas if you show someone photos of the sky that's not as comparative to humans as animals are. Flowers is a rogue one in comparison. Why might, because I think flowers might be really good, so can you think why I might be thinking that...? Maybe because there's a wide variety of flowers like there's a wide variety of humans whereas again going back to the sky, the sky is either blue, dark, cloudy, it's not as a broad spectrum whereas with flowers you can have a million different types of roses, ... and then that again reflects the variety you get in the human race. Good okay, so I mean if you kind of carry, so part of it is the variety, yeah okay, and so you could have a variety of different stimuli and so you can show it's not just that you're showing the same thing again and again like you said if it's if it's the sky maybe people just get bored and brain activity, as you're saying earlier with faces, kind of goes down as people get bored and yeah, great okay so ...

can you sort of outline then ... so what might the experiment look like so we're showing pictures of faces and let's say animals and flowers? Yeah, so ... if you're measuring brain activity you'd need someone in a brain scanner so maybe a pet scan and probably FMRI for brain activity and structure. Someone would be lay down and you'd have a screen above them you'd flash up an image potentially of a person, leave it for a interval of like three seconds give them a break of five seconds to just look at a blank screen then maybe show a flower for three seconds, blank screen for five, then an animal ... and to measure you'd look at the brain activity and then I'm trying to think if the participant would need to do anything else, ... I don't know maybe show them again like on three times or maybe so and then measure the level of brain activity for each individual picture to see if it goes up each time they recognize the face but you'd have to do a random order so you'd show it in an order of the first trial, randomize the order of the pictures for the next trial and then see if the, and then you have to like do some very complex analysis and match all the trials with the pictures and things like that. So suppose what you found, because I think this idea of recognition you're talking about, recognizing in terms of being familiar with that particular face that's an interesting one. So I mean, let's say ... so I guess what you're thinking there is brain activity that maybe is increasing with every time you see that same face but ... what would you expect, I guess if it is a face area just to be clear, what would you expect to see in, kind of, when they see the same animal or the same flower again and again? I think maybe it wouldn't be as high, I'm not sure because with an animal there isn't as many distinctions and maybe with humans you feel more emotion and ... when you're doing facial processing you're looking at someone's face and their emotions and you're taking that in, whereas with an animal it feels a bit more distant, and you would maybe expect less activity because especially with the flower there's not much emotional connection to that whereas when you see a human there's like your brain recognizes that and goes I recognize that human and you give them a bit of a backstory in your mind and things like that. Yeah, so I mean that started to hint at something that's important here about kind of thinking about what the brain activity is doing, right, so you there's one aspect which is sort of that recognition and sort of linking it with memory but then there's an interesting thing that you're saying that faces might have more emotional links as well and so that ... it starts to get the difficulty of interpreting what that brain activity means, so ... I wish we had time to kind of explore that in a bit more detail but we we don't so I'm going to ask one last question which is thinking back to those face blind people supposing now you do this experiment so we've got a nice experiment designed and let's say we find what you expected if it was a face area that let's say it's more active when people look at faces and maybe even increases in activities you see the same face over and over again but it doesn't show that for animals ... or flowers and supposing now you do that experiment with we bring those the kind of healthy controls so who can recognize faces but also face blind people, and we do that experiment, so we think we've got a face area, and we do that experiment but what we find actually to our surprise or to Professor Smith's surprise what she finds is that ... this area is also activated in these face blind people. How might we explain that result, these are people who, so we think we found a face area ... but it's acted in people who can't apparently recognize faces. So that would maybe explain if it's activated in them they might just have lower activity even if it's been activated or it could explain that there's another area of the brain that needs looking at a bit more closely that might be impacting on their ability to recognize faces. Okay so tell me so, what what's your intuition or what might be interesting about what that other brain area might be doing? The brain area that's stopping them processing faces? Yeah. Yeah, ... it could be stopping them so they might recognize the face but then they might not be able to process it and give them that emotion, attach those emotions to them, attach the back story, so it's not as poignant for them and they can't recognize it again so whereas the other people can ... and then that means they've got poor memory of that face and that's why it might be quite complex with the other brain regions. Great okay, so I always just ask questions until I run out of time and I think maybe I've more than run out of time so I'll hand you over to Kate for another question, thank you very much. Okay yeah ... thanks Nick ... my question ... is kind of probing a little bit of a similar idea about experimental ... design but I'm going to kind of give you free for all on this and ask you to design it from scratch, so the question is about the relationship between sleep and memory, so we've known for a long time that you know it's kind of common sense that sleep is really important for cognitive performance in general ... but there's some indication that it's particularly ... critical for memory so how would you design an experiment that would test whether ... sleep has an effect on the performance on a memory test? So tell me how you would test ... some participants, what your stimuli would be, what you'll measure etc? You can take minutes to think about it if you want to think. Okay.

So you would need a memory test so an easy one is kind of just like word list: ten words, high frequency words, so people know what they are, quite easy to remember, ... you would maybe test people in the evening when they'd had been awake for say eight hours then you would maybe let them sleep, again for a controlled amount of time so eight hours, and then test them as soon as they woke up and then you could also if you wanted to to get more measurements test at intervals throughout the day when they're progressively getting more tired and then you would need to control variables such as like their caffeine intake and things like that. Or you could do it where you had like a matched pairs design of a control group who had slept and a group that hadn't slept, and test their ... differences in remembering the word list. You would have given 30 seconds to say, like, write down all the words they could remember from the list. Okay ... so tell me what the test is every time you're testing them: you've given them 10 words and told them that they're going to have to remember those words yeah? And then when you test them what's the question? So you would say ... can you write down as many words that you can remember in 30 seconds maybe and they just write down all the words they could.

Okay, so they need to recall ... the words from the original list. Okay, ... so in this ... group where you've tested them ... when they wake up in the morning ... what other factors aside from sleep do you think might affect performance then? Their stress levels perhaps if they're really stressed they wouldn't have as good memory, if they're distracted so they need to be in like a quiet room, ... if they've had interference throughout the day as well, so I think stress kind of comes into that ... the caffeine intake, whether they were on any medication that does the opposite effect of caffeine, ... Okay let's assume they're all, you know, really happy students at the University of Oxford and they don't have any stress so, ... what are you comparing this recall that they did at eight o'clock in the morning to? ... How will you know whether that's a good or a bad performance? So you would have to compare it to either their recall when they were really tired before they went to bed or you'd have to compare it to another group that hadn't slept and then you'd obviously have to have quite a lot of people, take a mean so that you knew what was good, and maybe potentially high on the normal distribution curve and what was not very good which would hopefully, if your experiment worked, be the sleep deprived people. Okay so ... if we take that example then, the comparison between the two groups, the ones that have had a night's sleep and the ones that haven't, have been kept awake, ... can you conclude that sleep is the only explanation for the difference in their performance? I don't think so because it's a correlation so you can't get cause and effect there might be like another factor which is hard to isolate, like you can't isolate it potentially, ... so you would assume that the reason why their memory is poor is because of sleep but there might be like other things, like their stress levels, like they might have a brain deficit which obviously you would try and eliminate that beforehand. Yeah ... but I mean how would you feel after a night's deprivation of sleep? Do you think it's just your memory that's affected? No I think your emotions would be affected you'd feel very like anxious potentially, ... I know ... I'm a bit like grumpy the next day if I hadn't had much sleep, ... your concentration in general, so it might not be that their memories suffered but they might not just be able to concentrate enough to even like write words out. Yeah and in some ways all we know, all we are learning from this is you know that tiredness perhaps makes a difference. So how might we kind of look at perhaps the other side of the coin, like the beneficial effects of sleep on memory? ... So you would maybe just like ... if you want to look at it from an everyday perspective look at things like school results so you would maybe just like question... Let me interrupt you sorry, ... this in an experiment like could you measure something about ... the sleep perhaps? So ... oh you want to look at quality of sleep, is that what you mean? Yeah yeah quality of sleep, length of sleep, so you'd look at people that slept four hours a night, five hours a night, six hours a night, seven hours a night, ... whether that sleep is interrupted, say someone with a newborn baby is going to be woken up, and that's not complete sleep ... and just in general I think if you asked, you don't sleep that well, so things like that. The quality of sleep is clearly ... important ... okay, I mean there are lots of other things we could think about like measuring things at different times of day and things like that ... but I'd just quite like to know whether you think ten words would be enough to ... measure performance on this test? Do you think people would do badly or ... how how could they show improvement? Yeah probably not because 10 words might be quite easy to remember because short term memory has like the capacity similar to that, so you'd maybe need to use more and then you could see a greater difference between those that have slept and those that haven't slept. In terms of showing improvement again 10 doesn't give much leeway for that: if you've scored nine on the first attempt, yeah you can only buy one sort of thing. So you might need a more challenging test, but okay this last thing then, how many participants would you have in your study and why? ... So you would need quite a large number to not exclude anomalies, so I don't know, maybe like 50 to 100 but because you can't have a ... a huge number sorry because of like practical issues, just ... things like you've probably got to pay them, not many people might appear to be sleep deprived, it's marginally unethical, so you just for practical reasons you can't have thousands of people so maybe between like 50 to 100. Do you know any ways we could ... determine quantitatively like ... with statistics how many we'd need? ... I think you'd maybe need to look at one of the stats tests to like determine significance maybe, and look at how many participants looks like a a nice number, I'm not really sure. No don't worry, I'm not expecting you to, I'm just curious as to what you might think. Okay great ... I think I'll wind up there and ... any other things from you Nick or should we? Nope, no more questions from me thanks. So sometimes we'd ask you if you had any questions if there was time ... at the end: do you have any questions for us? No I don't think so, I think I'm all right thank you. Great no worries thanks very much Beth, nice to meet you. Thank you nice to meet you.

I guess I asked the first question so I'll say a bit about that, so I thought, well I enjoyed the interview and I think there was ... it was a good representation of how interviews are, so I think there were some of the things where for example ... I'm working through a set of pre-set questions that I can evaluate everybody on the same kind of questions and I think there was a bit where Beth got slightly off on the wrong foot in terms of thinking that the brain imaging experiment was about ... face blind participants, which you know it's easy to miss because I was going through the description quite quickly ... it might be different with a bit of time for pre-interview reading, ... and so I had to kind of bring it back a couple of times so ... that's kind of fairly common I think ... so there were some missteps and that's very characteristic of interviews as we were talking about before. I think one of, a couple of things I really liked about ... what Bethan did was she had some good intuitions and she was willing to sort of stop and think about them so ... when we started talking about control stimuli, ... when I suggested that, she immediately sort of came up with some suggestions and not just kind of ... I think there were good intuitions there because she kind of suggested it ... things that would actually be quite good, but when I asked her why would those be quite good she had some good ways of thinking about why you might pick those and why you might actually have a range of different control stimuli and they might be good for different reasons so I think there was ... that interaction where she was willing to sort of really listen to the question and stop and think was good and so I think we got both sides in terms of some, you know, the missteps that are characteristic of interviews and things don't always go smoothly and I don't always get to work through my questions but, in terms of things that went well and I'd highlight, I think that very kind of open discussion and her willingness to think about and come up with and unpack her thinking was really good. How about you? Yeah I mean I think she ticks that box of clear enthusiasm for the course you know, demonstrated that a little bit ... when she talked about her EPQ and it came through in her questions and you know obviously I think she has that background in psychology but it's not always necessary. I don't think it's always, like, that advantageous to have done that, because you can still work through these sorts of things, and what she demonstrated in terms of general skills was I think she was really good at that interactive ... thing and self-monitoring herself like updating things you know when I asked her about how many stimuli she needed to have in her test, she kind of quite quickly realized that 10 perhaps wasn't going to be enough, so she was she was willing to change you know and not stick to like her first ... thoughts, which is great. And ... you know my last question about the, effectively was about kind of the power of the experiment, how many people would you need to test... I just quite like to hear what students think at that point ... but I think don't expect them to know about power or how to calculate how many people you need in an experiment but just know that, you know, this is what we we think of when we're designing experiments, they are scientific and we do use statistics so understanding the, kind of, the more quantitative side of the course and that that is required. I think she clearly kind of knew about that so, yeah, ... she she did well and I think it was a good, a typical, kind of ... interview performance with you know, areas of going down alleys which were not fruitful but ... coming back from them in response to ... things that we gave her. So yeah pretty good. Yeah so ... I guess we asked two psychology questions in that interview, and yeah I often, actually what I would do in an interview is ... ask one question like that, that's very psychology focused and is really about an experiment, and ... often a more general reasoning puzzle ... but part of the reason we do that is ... we interview ... for ... experimental psychology and PPL, so psychology, philosophy and linguistics, with the same interview ... we usually have an extra interview for linguistics but everybody ... applying for EP and PPL at University College will get the same kind of basic interview set up, with those two questions. Do you do the same at St Anne's? Yeah so ... for the online interviews, we give the EP students ... a very similar psychology interview, as you say, perhaps not always two questions about experimental design but ... we're testing different aspects of psychology and then the linguistic students will have another, people applying for psychology and linguistics, will have another interview with the linguistics tutor ... which will focus obviously on language and there's also a linguistics test that they do pre-interview and then and then if they're coming for philosophy and psychology then they will have an interview with our philosophers as well ... and yeah, there'll be again no kind of prior knowledge needed for either of those ... interviews. It's unusual that you would have studied those ... at school so ... yeah everything's given to you in the interview to think about and demonstrate how you rationalize that information or how you think about that new information, so very similar sorts of skills being tested in all of these interviews but with slightly different kind of focuses or foci, I guess. Yeah, so I think the topics will differ a lot but across the interviews in a range of subjects so hopefully what we've done today is a good representation of the sort of interview you can expect if not in content but in the general sort of feel and format.